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	<title>Comments on: Naming Baby P is not about giving into a Facebook campaign</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/</link>
	<description>Online journalism news</description>
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		<title>By: Independent.co.uk: Online &#8216;made a mockery of High Court&#8217; in Baby P case &#124; Journalism.co.uk Editors' Blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-15955</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent.co.uk: Online &#8216;made a mockery of High Court&#8217; in Baby P case &#124; Journalism.co.uk Editors' Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-15955</guid>
		<description>[...] is referring to the transgression of reporting restrictions, which banned the identification of Baby P&#8217;s mothe.... The restrictions were officially lifted this week. &#8220;There then appears to be a double [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is referring to the transgression of reporting restrictions, which banned the identification of Baby P&#8217;s mothe&#8230;. The restrictions were officially lifted this week. &#8220;There then appears to be a double [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scottish Sun: Naming Baby P&#8217;s mum and stepdad &#124; Journalism.co.uk Editors' Blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-15882</link>
		<dc:creator>Scottish Sun: Naming Baby P&#8217;s mum and stepdad &#124; Journalism.co.uk Editors' Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-15882</guid>
		<description>[...] article goes on to describe how their names were made available online: &#8220;Vigilantes managed to get around the identity ban in the early weeks of their conviction by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] article goes on to describe how their names were made available online: &#8220;Vigilantes managed to get around the identity ban in the early weeks of their conviction by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-12728</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 08:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-12728</guid>
		<description>Just how much authority does the law have over the internet - and to what extent does British law (just as example) have the right to prohibit publication of names, etc, on &#039;internation airspace&#039; online...?

Fair enough, we now know why the personal details of the mother and one of the males were withheld - because back in November the case involving the sister of baby Peter was being organised and it was necessary to have a jury who knew nothing about the mother and boyfriend or details about &#039;Baby P&#039; at the time. It was a new trial regarding different charges.

By this stage the horses had bolted regarding the online vigilanties; with no internet there would have been no problem withholding details - but I think applying the old media targeted reporting restrictions rules to the internet was madness. Two completely different mediums; one can be controlled the other - impossible...

Laws in this regard need to be adapted to take the online world into account - if you are a professional hack then you would have received notice of reporting restrictions, online bloggers etc get no such notice and assume such rules do not apply to them. 

I am sure though that if it was made known - in some way - that the anonymity thing was in place in November because a new trial involved a sibling then maybe it would have been respected. The online community simply saw it as protecting the criminals in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just how much authority does the law have over the internet &#8211; and to what extent does British law (just as example) have the right to prohibit publication of names, etc, on &#8216;internation airspace&#8217; online&#8230;?</p>
<p>Fair enough, we now know why the personal details of the mother and one of the males were withheld &#8211; because back in November the case involving the sister of baby Peter was being organised and it was necessary to have a jury who knew nothing about the mother and boyfriend or details about &#8216;Baby P&#8217; at the time. It was a new trial regarding different charges.</p>
<p>By this stage the horses had bolted regarding the online vigilanties; with no internet there would have been no problem withholding details &#8211; but I think applying the old media targeted reporting restrictions rules to the internet was madness. Two completely different mediums; one can be controlled the other &#8211; impossible&#8230;</p>
<p>Laws in this regard need to be adapted to take the online world into account &#8211; if you are a professional hack then you would have received notice of reporting restrictions, online bloggers etc get no such notice and assume such rules do not apply to them. </p>
<p>I am sure though that if it was made known &#8211; in some way &#8211; that the anonymity thing was in place in November because a new trial involved a sibling then maybe it would have been respected. The online community simply saw it as protecting the criminals in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnold</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-12304</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-12304</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true that &quot;the masses&quot; won&#039;t necessarily be aware of media law. However, in my mind the issue in this case is more that the courts are still operating on the basis of the jurors only learning about the case during the trial.

That situation is probably viable in cases along the lines of &quot;Joe is accused of pinching an apple&quot; but, these days, not really a runner in high profile cases and particularly those where there&#039;d be an international interest. Certainly in the past one could have looked up details in the newspapers held in one&#039;s local library which gets an exemption from the contempt of court. Yet, apparently, looking up the very same newspaper archive online would mean that the paper would be in contempt. That&#039;s even before you consider the various places that information is cached these days.

For example, our own www.CulturedViews.com had (now deleted) information about the case. Even though we have deleted it&#039;s still available to the world courtesy of google et al caching.

For that matter, surely a Sky+ box could be in contempt if one had recorded some news programmes from a while back on the case? After all, one can attach a gadget to it which allows it to broadcast throughout the home ie it has a publishing capability.

Perhaps the best approach would be to only publish one&#039;s blog in America where at least there&#039;d be a first amendment protection (which, apparently, provided our site with some protection as the registrar refused to take it down).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true that &#8220;the masses&#8221; won&#8217;t necessarily be aware of media law. However, in my mind the issue in this case is more that the courts are still operating on the basis of the jurors only learning about the case during the trial.</p>
<p>That situation is probably viable in cases along the lines of &#8220;Joe is accused of pinching an apple&#8221; but, these days, not really a runner in high profile cases and particularly those where there&#8217;d be an international interest. Certainly in the past one could have looked up details in the newspapers held in one&#8217;s local library which gets an exemption from the contempt of court. Yet, apparently, looking up the very same newspaper archive online would mean that the paper would be in contempt. That&#8217;s even before you consider the various places that information is cached these days.</p>
<p>For example, our own <a href="http://www.CulturedViews.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.CulturedViews.com</a> had (now deleted) information about the case. Even though we have deleted it&#8217;s still available to the world courtesy of google et al caching.</p>
<p>For that matter, surely a Sky+ box could be in contempt if one had recorded some news programmes from a while back on the case? After all, one can attach a gadget to it which allows it to broadcast throughout the home ie it has a publishing capability.</p>
<p>Perhaps the best approach would be to only publish one&#8217;s blog in America where at least there&#8217;d be a first amendment protection (which, apparently, provided our site with some protection as the registrar refused to take it down).</p>
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		<title>By: Judith Townend</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-9318</link>
		<dc:creator>Judith Townend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-9318</guid>
		<description>Bernadette, my point is, in fact, the opposite: everyone has publishing power so distinctions between journalists and public are less and less relevant.

My argument is that we should have systems in place for educating people who haven&#039;t read, or been trained in media law (which journalists should have been), so they can see where they would be in breach of Contempt of Court legislation. 

The quote you attribute to me was from someone else&#039;s blog, and not my own words. 

Note: we had to delete your second comment - the details it contained would have been in Contempt of Court under UK law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernadette, my point is, in fact, the opposite: everyone has publishing power so distinctions between journalists and public are less and less relevant.</p>
<p>My argument is that we should have systems in place for educating people who haven&#8217;t read, or been trained in media law (which journalists should have been), so they can see where they would be in breach of Contempt of Court legislation. </p>
<p>The quote you attribute to me was from someone else&#8217;s blog, and not my own words. </p>
<p>Note: we had to delete your second comment &#8211; the details it contained would have been in Contempt of Court under UK law.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernadette</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-9283</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernadette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-9283</guid>
		<description>Are YOU a member of the public Judith?  Or are you in an exalted position, looking down on the &#039;masses&#039; with curled lip?  That comment you made &quot;members of the public are uneducated about the laws and ethics of journalism&quot;.... so, they will be kept in the dark?  Think about what you are saying, it sounds to me like the old-fashioned attitude of ignorent men who thought women belonged in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are YOU a member of the public Judith?  Or are you in an exalted position, looking down on the &#8216;masses&#8217; with curled lip?  That comment you made &#8220;members of the public are uneducated about the laws and ethics of journalism&#8221;&#8230;. so, they will be kept in the dark?  Think about what you are saying, it sounds to me like the old-fashioned attitude of ignorent men who thought women belonged in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant!</p>
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		<title>By: Can contempt of court survive the internet? &#171; Esther Armstrong&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-9220</link>
		<dc:creator>Can contempt of court survive the internet? &#171; Esther Armstrong&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-9220</guid>
		<description>[...] Judith Townend points out, members of the public are uneducated about the laws and ethics of journalism and have no editorial [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Judith Townend points out, members of the public are uneducated about the laws and ethics of journalism and have no editorial [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reporting restrictions: who can access them? &#124; Journalism.co.uk Editors' Blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-8348</link>
		<dc:creator>Reporting restrictions: who can access them? &#124; Journalism.co.uk Editors' Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-8348</guid>
		<description>[...] reported on the main site, and as I commented previously on this blog, reporting restrictions which - if broken - would contravene the British Contempt of Court Act, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reported on the main site, and as I commented previously on this blog, reporting restrictions which &#8211; if broken &#8211; would contravene the British Contempt of Court Act, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quick, probably not very well-thought out post about law and teh interweb &#171; Gary Andrews</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-8117</link>
		<dc:creator>Quick, probably not very well-thought out post about law and teh interweb &#171; Gary Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-8117</guid>
		<description>[...] that that the media hasn&#8217;t named the couple who were jailed over Baby P&#8217;s death, but as Judith Townsend at Journalism.co.uk points out, naming Baby P isn&#8217;t about any notion of justice (whatever that may be), or about the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that that the media hasn&#8217;t named the couple who were jailed over Baby P&#8217;s death, but as Judith Townsend at Journalism.co.uk points out, naming Baby P isn&#8217;t about any notion of justice (whatever that may be), or about the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: peterking</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-8054</link>
		<dc:creator>peterking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-8054</guid>
		<description>The only valid reason for not identifying them is if it impeded another prosecution case. If their are other children involved so what if i murdered an adult and was convicted then my son would know because it would be in the media. 

 Otherwise the people have an absolute right to know and the courts are acting in contempt of the people. The public have a total right to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only valid reason for not identifying them is if it impeded another prosecution case. If their are other children involved so what if i murdered an adult and was convicted then my son would know because it would be in the media. </p>
<p> Otherwise the people have an absolute right to know and the courts are acting in contempt of the people. The public have a total right to know.</p>
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		<title>By: tessa frampton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-7960</link>
		<dc:creator>tessa frampton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-7960</guid>
		<description>this whole awful story has seemed to be in favour of the murderers and not the victim. if this had been done to an adult the\y would have been accused of murder</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this whole awful story has seemed to be in favour of the murderers and not the victim. if this had been done to an adult the\y would have been accused of murder</p>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/2008/11/18/naming-baby-p-is-not-about-giving-into-a-facebook-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-7952</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/?p=5243#comment-7952</guid>
		<description>I am not unhappy with the present postion in publication in both the Baby P &amp; BNP Membership names.

If you really want to know it is not too difficult to find out.

If you want to publish it then you can expect it to be taken down. Most news &amp; community sites have voluntarily done this without even been asked.

The latter is important in frustrating vigilante action. Free publication can only do harm in this case. It is a fudge and one that should be welcomed. The internet has given us the  protection that much can no longer be kept secret. Making them a bit difficult to find is a good price to pay to stop this good advance coming at too great a cost by irresponsible exploitation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not unhappy with the present postion in publication in both the Baby P &amp; BNP Membership names.</p>
<p>If you really want to know it is not too difficult to find out.</p>
<p>If you want to publish it then you can expect it to be taken down. Most news &amp; community sites have voluntarily done this without even been asked.</p>
<p>The latter is important in frustrating vigilante action. Free publication can only do harm in this case. It is a fudge and one that should be welcomed. The internet has given us the  protection that much can no longer be kept secret. Making them a bit difficult to find is a good price to pay to stop this good advance coming at too great a cost by irresponsible exploitation.</p>
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